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[London] Tube question - I know it's wonky and I don't care [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
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[London] Tube question [Mar. 5th, 2017|07:01 pm]
Kake
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If you were going northbound on the Northern Line and wanted the most efficient change to the Bakerloo Line, would you do it at Waterloo, Embankment, or Charing Cross?

I asked [personal profile] bob and he wasn't sure. Looking at the Tube map, the only station where the Northern and Bakerloo lines are on the same “blob” is Charing Cross — but am I misremembering that blobness is related to ease of changing?

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[User Picture]From: gerald_duck
2017-03-05 07:31 pm (UTC)
You can Google up the plans of tube stations. Unfortunately, they don't have scales, but a quick glance suggests the Bakerloo and Northern platforms are easily closest together at Waterloo.
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[User Picture]From: gerald_duck
2017-03-05 07:46 pm (UTC)
PS: Be aware that stations around there have had a confusing history (video).

What we now know as Charing Cross station started out in life as two separate stations. By my calculations, the interconnecting passageways that were built at the same time as the original Jubilee Line are about 250m long. (Yes, I know the Jubilee Line now goes through Waterloo instead of Charing Cross.) On the other hand, what we now know as Embankment station started life as a District Line station; the Bakerloo Line bit was bodged in rather distant from the existing platforms, followed by the Northern Line, which looks none too close to the Bakerloo Line there, either.)

I think that Charing Cross and Embankment are the only two tube stations visible from one another at street level that are consecutive stops on the same line(s), by the way.
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[User Picture]From: nou
2017-03-06 08:13 pm (UTC)
Thanks!
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[User Picture]From: katstevens
2017-03-05 10:37 pm (UTC)
I think the Waterloo and Embankment changes are fairly similar in terms of actual time, however both interchanges can be Somewhat Confusing in terms of signage - finding the right escalator to go down to the right direction of Northern line at Embankment is a nightmare unless you happen to be looking in the right direction, or already know where you're going. Waterloo is slightly better but also slightly busier, and full of lost-looking tourists trying to find the Jubilee line bit. Charing Cross is definitely a bit more of a distance but it's more clearly signed IMHO.

TL:DR, I would go with Embankment, as I know where I'm going :)
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[User Picture]From: katstevens
2017-03-05 10:42 pm (UTC)
In terms of the 'blob', ISTR that used to be 'change here otherwise you won't be able to later'. So e.g. Aldgate East has a blob, but Aldgate doesn't (as the lines don't diverge, the Met line just ends).

Edit: ah, I misread your comment, sorry. I don't know why there are double-blobs!

Edited at 2017-03-05 10:43 pm (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: gerald_duck
2017-03-06 03:33 pm (UTC)
Getting dangerously geeky, now, I believe double-blobs are normally just a cartographical convenience when things get crowded.

However, in a handful of locations (e.g. Monument/Bank) they're needed because different parts of a station complex have different names.
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[User Picture]From: knell
2017-03-07 09:41 am (UTC)
The double blob seems to have a specific function on line diagrams ("you have to change platforms to change between these lines"):

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-line-diagram-standard.pdf

On the Tube map, though, yeah, it's an essential cartographic device - see for instance how the Northern Line between Euston and Camden Town would be almost impossible to render neatly without the dumbbell. Interesting. I hadn't noticed the difference between the two uses before.
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[User Picture]From: nou
2017-03-07 06:02 pm (UTC)
Ah-ha, thanks, that must be where I got it from. I was sure I hadn't made it up — looks like I just misremembered the context.
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[User Picture]From: katstevens
2017-03-07 09:45 pm (UTC)
Oooh I love a design standards document, thank you for posting the link :)
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[User Picture]From: knell
2017-03-06 10:55 am (UTC)
After a bit of head-scratching I'd go with Embankment as well. None of them are perfect interchanges, but Embankment has the advantage of not being Waterloo and thus preferable in terms of having a quiet life.

Depending on where you're coming from, if it's Kennington or points south then a ninja move might be to take the Bank branch and change at the Elephant instead. If you're at the front of the Northern train it's a short hop from there to the Bakerloo platforms, and you're guaranteed to get a seat on the Bakerloo as it's the terminus:

http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/elephant-and-castle.jpg
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[User Picture]From: nou
2017-03-06 08:06 pm (UTC)
Thanks! This would indeed be the clever solution if I didn’t have the additional constraint of specifically wanting to travel on the Northern Line between Kennington and Waterloo :) (I will explain why at some later point.)
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[User Picture]From: nou
2017-03-06 08:03 pm (UTC)
Thanks! I think I’m going to go with Embankment. If I get lost, I’ll just use my normal strategy of going up to the ticket hall and then back down again...
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[User Picture]From: katstevens
2017-03-06 11:04 pm (UTC)
A sound strategy! I have found a picture of exactly how batshit Embankment's layout is - on closer inspection, I think Waterloo might actually be a better bet:

(click for bigger)

As you can see, Embankment is one of those annoying stations (like Holborn and Chancery Lane) where the 2 platforms for the same line aren't next to each other. Very frustrating if you are engrossed in your book and miss your stop!

Oooh, here's CHX:





Edited at 2017-03-06 11:04 pm (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: katstevens
2017-03-06 11:09 pm (UTC)
I can't embed the Waterloo image but the one here it definitely looks quicker, though experience tells me the tunnels are narrower and there are always people with heavy luggage trying to get up/down the Northern line steps (not that they have much choice...)
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[User Picture]From: nou
2017-03-07 08:54 am (UTC)
Embankment is indeed rather convoluted! (Ian Visits has a non-redacted plan BTW.)

I think I prefer that to the people-with-heavy-luggage issue though.
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[User Picture]From: katstevens
2017-03-07 07:46 pm (UTC)
I can't embed the Waterloo image but the one here it definitely looks quicker, though experience tells me the tunnels are narrower and there are always people with heavy luggage trying to get up/down the Northern line steps (not that they have much choice...)
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[User Picture]From: thekumquat
2017-03-06 03:41 pm (UTC)
Not Charing Cross. Long corridors.
The others are fairly similar - I'd probably go for Waterloo which has a bit more space.
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[User Picture]From: nou
2017-03-06 08:13 pm (UTC)
Noted, thanks! I think I’m going to go for Embankment, but hopefully it’ll work out.
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[User Picture]From: porsupah
2017-03-11 03:31 am (UTC)
For future reference, if you have an iThing, you might like to pick up Station Master, which includes a lot of information about all the stations, including static 3D maps for every one. It's quite cool. ^_^
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[User Picture]From: nou
2017-03-11 07:05 am (UTC)
Station Master is great, and I'm subscribed to their blog, but I don't have any iThings!
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