Log in

No account? Create an account
How to make women feel welcome at the GBBF. - I know it's wonky and I don't care [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]

[ website | My Website ]
[ userinfo | livejournal userinfo ]
[ archive | journal archive ]

[Links:| Randomness Guide to London | Open Guide to Cambridge | Snake Soup | KakeFlickr ]

How to make women feel welcome at the GBBF. [Aug. 11th, 2008|04:02 pm]
[Tags|, ]

Good work there, CAMRA.

[User Picture]From: catsgomiaow
2008-08-11 03:10 pm (UTC)
I now feel like a total tit (no pun intended) for joining up now - I am VERY glad that I didn't see these :(
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: nou
2008-08-11 03:27 pm (UTC)
It's worth writing to CAMRA to point this out! If they're doing (or condoning) something that makes it less likely that they get new members, they will want to know.

(Edited for clarity.)

Edited at 2008-08-11 03:27 pm (UTC)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: dogrando
2008-08-14 11:22 pm (UTC)
(Sorry, just remembered that I have been meaning to reply to this for a couple of days.)

Every year, I see the T-shirts, my mates and I have a whinge about it, and then I do nothing more. This is almost certainly Fail.

It's not just the sexist ones, they manage to be crashingly offensive in a bunch of ways. I always find the hilarious alcoholism-based jokes in particularly bad taste. And, like attracting a younger and more gender-equal membership, promoting responsible drinking is a stated goal of the campaign.

How many signatures do you think we could get for a '(I am a CAMRA member and this sort of thing (pisses me off)|(makes me consider not renewing my membership)|(I am not a CAMRA member but would consider joining if it were not for this sort of thing)' letter? Would it do any good?
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand)
[User Picture]From: rjw1
2008-08-11 03:10 pm (UTC)
in camras defence they probably dont have much say over what shirts stallholders sell. okay they dont have to take their money i suppose.
all the shirts on that stall are of the same gutter humour level.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: major_clanger
2008-08-11 03:22 pm (UTC)
Arguably CAMRA has complete control over what stallholders sell, as they can close them down. I don't know what sort of contract CAMRA has with stallholders, but it could well include a term to say that they must not display material that is offensive. Even if the contract doesn't say this, there's a good legal argument that there is an implied term that the stallholder won't engage in behaviour that would bring CAMRA into disrepute.

(Not a lawyer yet but can do a good impression of one.)

Edited at 2008-08-11 03:22 pm (UTC)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand)
[User Picture]From: major_clanger
2008-08-11 03:17 pm (UTC)
On the one hand, this wasn't a CAMRA stand. But on the other, it was at a CAMRA-run event, and it's implicit that CAMRA approves - or at least does not disapprove - of the sale of such merchandise.

How much responsibility should an event organiser take for what is sold at its event? And should it be deemed as endorsing any message or viewpoint put forward by items on sale? My background for this sort of thing is running science fiction conventions, and the not-very-hypothetical example I'd give is to ask what a convention committee should do if the following happened:

1) A dealer in the dealers' room is selling a novel that can reasonably be described as misogynistic and islamaphobic.

2) The publisher of said novel ask to place an advert, describing its content in very approving terms, in the convention programme book.

This is related to the whole 'safe space' debate that's been going on in sf fandom for the past few years. What is more important: the right of people to attend an event without being exposed to material which quite reasonably offends them, or the right of other people to, as they see it, express themselves in an environment tolerant of minority views?
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: nou
2008-08-11 03:25 pm (UTC)
Good points, and good questions! I will come back to this later, but for now:

- I don't think it's necessary to be tolerant of intolerance.
- I have trouble believing that racism and sexism are "minority views", at least in the UK.
- It's not about one or two or even a hundred people being offended, but about the systemic view of women (or Muslims, etc) as "other" and (in the case of women) as objects.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread) (Expand)
[User Picture]From: hazyjayne
2008-08-11 03:21 pm (UTC)
Those are... special...
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: techiebabe
2008-08-11 03:29 pm (UTC)
Oh dear. Laddish environment, laddish tees.

Have they got round to providing any decent seating yet, or is it still "bring your own chair and mind the suspicious piles of sand on the floor"?
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: nou
2008-08-11 03:38 pm (UTC)
The seating wasn't really optimal but it wasn't awful. Large round tables and moulded plastic chairs. It was arranged in big clumps which were pretty hard to navigate through, though easier to navigate around.

Edited for typo.

Edited at 2008-08-11 03:39 pm (UTC)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: atommickbrane
2008-08-11 03:47 pm (UTC)
IIRC the men's were pretty cringeworthy as well! But I did groan audibly and roll eyes round the venue a few times when I saw that particular selection. We noticed a sizeable increase in the amount of twat hats and hilarious "inflatable sheep". I think I put the quote marks in the wrong place there! Hahaha.

I personally reckon they're victims of their own success, ie getting the city/lager boy groups in on a jolly. I doubt that's a reflection of CAMRA's attitude as a whole.

Their attitude as a whole is pretty rubbish of course but for different reasons (they're on the patronising little women side rather than GET YERRR TITTTESSSS OUUTTTT side whenever I bother to consider anything to do with CAMRA, I like to think of them as little as poss rly).
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: pfy
2008-08-11 04:49 pm (UTC)
Mmmm, tasteful. Who on earth would want to own one of those? Mind you, there were plenty of attendees who had acquired hilarious rude balloon animals, so clearly there are people who will buy any old tacky crap.

Personally, I was offended by the thirteen quid I had to stump up before even getting to drink any beer.
(Reply) (Thread)
From: timeplease
2008-08-11 07:22 pm (UTC)
Personally, I was offended by the thirteen quid I had to stump up before even getting to drink any beer.

That's the reason I don't go (except to the trade session, for which I get free tickets).
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]From: 1ngi
2008-08-11 05:18 pm (UTC)
Perhaps they are for beer-induced man breasts?
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: hoshuteki
2008-08-11 06:35 pm (UTC)
There's a reason I've never actually got round to joining CAMRA, and I think that photo sort of pin-points it. I find a lot of their attitudes objectionable if not downright offensive. Their Beer magazine is attractively put together, but having to sift through so very much anti-lager anti-gastropub ale-drinkers-are-actually-more-intelligent drivel depresses me and I get the strong feeling that if I ever voiced such an opinion I'd get a lot of people lining up to call my views 'political correctness gone mad' or some such. In fact, I recall a Stonch post (I think it was him) berating a lot of the stupidity that is invoked in the name of patriotism on St George's Day, that was greeted with much of this kind of thing. It's really dispiriting.
(Reply) (Thread)